Dechert 4 Real: A Commercial Real Estate Finance Podcast

Dechert 4 Real is a new podcast from Dechert LLP exploring the latest trends and developments in commercial real estate finance.

Join co-hosts Jon Gaynor, Sam Gilbert and Ella-Marie Smith every month as they delve into current issues impacting both the legal and business aspects of real estate finance transactions, including lending, securitization and restructuring. Each episode features market commentary and interviews with industry thought leaders, providing listeners with valuable insights and practical advice, plus a little banter along the way.

Are we 4 Real? Tell us what you think by submitting comments, questions, and feedback to realpodcast@dechert.com.

Listen and Subscribe on:

Latest Episode: Episode 21 – Springing Into Real Estate Debt Funds, EDGAR Next, Corporate Transparency Act Updates and Surprising Sports

March 27, 2025 – Spring is in the air as Dechert 4 Real’s Jon Gaynor, Ella Smith and Sam Gilbert take a fresh look at the world of real estate debt funds with Dechert financial services partner Gerry Brown, discussing market trends, the benefits of evergreen funds vs. closed-end funds, how tokenization will impact this space and much more. Plus, CMBS associate Parker Lacoste joins the show with updates on the SEC’s EDGAR Next program and the Corporate Transparency Act, while Ella invents an all-new sport: “gobf.”

Show Notes

EDGAR Next: What Filers Need to Know and How They Can Prepare, Dechert OnPoint (March 2025)

Key Takeaways:

The real estate debt fund market has been resilient and successful in raising funds, where other asset classes have struggled in recent years.
Clients are increasingly interested in evergreen credit funds and evergreen real estate credit funds due to investor and sponsor advantages such as avoiding the need for periodic approvals from investment committees and the ongoing fundraising efforts required for new funds.
The SEC’s EDGAR Next program, which went into effect on March 24, will require new filers to obtain password-based credentials, while existing filers can continue to use current codes and filing procedures until Sept. 12.
The U.S. Department of Treasury announced on March 2 the suspension of the Corporate Transparency Act, meaning it would not be enforcing any of the penalties or fines against U.S. citizens or domestic reporting companies. On March 21, FinCEN removed the beneficial ownership reporting requirements for U.S. companies and U.S. persons when they issued an interim final rule, which has been submitted to the Federal Register with a request for comments.

Previous 4 Real Episodes:

Episode 20 – Top Five CREFC Takeaways and a “Bullishly Measured” 2025

January 28, 2025 – Listen to the top five biggest takeaways from the CREFC annual conference in Miami on our first episode of 2025 with Dechert 4 Real Podcast co-host Jon Gaynor and producers Matt Armstrong, Kate Mylod and Stewart McQueen (who also co-chaired the conference). Get the inside scoop on the overall vibe, insights from keynote speaker Ron Howard, thoughts on increasing back-leverage options in commercial real estate finance and other trends to watch this year!

Rivalry in Red and Blue, Republican Elephant vs Democrat Donkey in U.S. 2024 Presidential Election Showdown

Episode 19 – The Download on Data Centers, U.S. Election Ripple Effects and Disney Vacations

October 29, 2024 – Dechert 4 Real hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella Smith and Sam Gilbert sit down with Dechert finance & real estate partner Justin Gdula to discuss the latest trends in data center deals, real estate M&A activity and Canadian CMBS. Plus, Dechert partner Jay Southgate discusses the impact this November’s U.S. presidential election may have on commercial real estate finance, the hosts discuss their pleasant — and not-so-pleasant — experiences at “The Most Magical Place on Earth” and the podcast goes into dad joke overload.

Episode 18 – How Climate Change, AI and Office Challenges Are Impacting CMBS With Erin Stafford From Morningstar DBRS

September 25, 2024 – Dechert 4 Real hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella Smith and Sam Gilbert invite the managing director and head of North American CMBS ratings activity at Morningstar DBRS, Erin Stafford, to the podcast to break down the current headwinds and opportunities in the CMBS space, from climate change’s impact on CMBS ratings to the industry’s emerging interest in data centers. Plus, Sam gives the 411 on New York City’s Safe Hotels Act, Dechert’s John Ludwig-Eagan highlights an upcoming re-proposal of the Basel III Endgame rules and the hosts get 4 Real about football season.

Architecture Abstract Of A Contemporary Opera House Reflected In A Modern Glass Office Block With Copy Space

Episode 17 – Navigating NAV and National Security in Commercial Real Estate

August 27, 2024 – Dechert's Ani Ravi joins 4 Real hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella Smith and Sam Gilbert for an informative discussion about the relationship between NAV facilities, subscription lines and repo financing, the evolving nature and implementation of NAV facilities, potential NAV pitfalls and the growing interest in this market segment. Dechert partner Hrishi Hari also joins the podcast to discuss recent developments with respect to national security reviews of foreign ownership in real estate. The hosts also share their Labor Day weekend plans and more.

Episode 16 – Forecasting Year-End Commercial Real Estate and Driving Forklifts Through the Office

July 18, 2024 – Dechert 4 Real hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella Smith and Sam Gilbert are joined by Barclays Head of CMBS Research Lea Overby to discuss commercial real estate trends we can expect in the second half of 2024, floating rate debt risk, lessons learned from the “Mall Apocalypse” and why “forklift offices” are better than “cave offices.” Plus, Dechert’s Steve Engel shares his thoughts on the Supreme Court’s recent Loper Bright decision.

Brooklyn Bridge at and the Lower Manhattan skyline under a purple sunset

Episode 15 – Rolling into Summer with CREFC Roulette and the Biggest Takeaways from the June Conference

June 20, 2024 – Dechert’s Jon Gaynor, Kate Mylod, Stewart McQueen and Matt Armstrong dive into the biggest conversations coming out of the 2024 CREFC Annual Conference in New York, including return-to-office trends, the “acceptance of reality” in the commercial real estate industry, what’s really happening in those “invitation only” sessions, and keynote speaker Trevor Noah’s poignant thoughts about airplane turbulence.

Episode 14 – Analyzing Agency CMBS with Leah Nivison and Tipping the Scales on Fish Jokes

May 21, 2024 – Hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella-Marie Smith and Sam Gilbert welcome BMO Capital Markets Managing Director Leah Nivison to discuss recent trends in the agency commercial mortgage-backed securities (CMBS) market, the importance of mentorship in the commercial real estate industry and why you should add petting an elephant to your summer vacation plans. Plus, we talk about Fitch requesting feedback on its proposed SASB C-PACE ratings criteria, the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling on pure omissions, and the most fin-tastically fishy dad jokes you’ve ever heard.

Episode 13 – Putting the Fun in Fund Formation, Climate Disclosure Rule Developments and Springtime Banter

April 16, 2024 – Investors looking to navigate the commercial real estate landscape more effectively are increasingly turning to alternative financing options. In this episode, hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella Smith and Sam Gilbert and guest Lindsay Trapp, who breaks down the intricacies of the structuring and formation of complex credit private funds, rated feeder and parallel funds and collateralized fund obligations (CFOs), including rating considerations and their impact on managers looking at raising insurance capital. We also discuss developments on the SEC's evolving climate-related disclosure rules and our favorite springtime activities.

Episode 12 – CRE CLO Delinquencies, Unconstitutional CTA, Single-Family Rental (SFR) Financing and What Happens in Vegas...

March 13, 2024 – Hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella-Marie Smith and Sam Gilbert join Dechert partner Ken Hackman to discuss the popular single-family rental (SFR) asset class and the rise of 'build to rent' properties, while also providing insights into recent CRE CLO delinquencies and an Alabama Federal Court Ruling on the "unconstitutionality" of the Corporate Transparency Act (CTA). Plus, find out what happens in Vegas as our team shares their best Sin City adventures.

Episode 11 – NPLs and Dolphins, the Proposed Basel III Endgame and Introducing Our Pets

February 14, 2024 – Hosts Jon Gaynor, Ella Marie Smith and Sam Gilbert are joined by Dechert partners Laura Swihart and Matthew Fischer to discuss non-performing loan securitizations (NPLs) and the unexpected collateral used in these transactions. We also chat about current issues in the commercial real estate market related to the proposed Basel III Endgame, which could increase regulatory capital charges for banks, and proudly introduce our pets.

Episode 10 – CREFC Roulette Resolutions, Shaq Quotes and Conference Clichés

January 22, 2024 – In our first episode of 2024, Jon Gaynor, Matt Armstrong, Stewart McQueen and Kate Mylod play a round of CREFC Roulette following the Council’s annual January conference in Miami. Topics include overall industry sentiment, interest rate expectations, the future of multifamily, and more.

Episode 9 – 4ward Legal Thinking, CRE Industry Updates and Festive Holiday Traditions

December 15, 2023 – In this episode, Jon Gaynor, Sam Gilbert and Ella-Marie Smith share their predictions on trends and upcoming regulatory changes expected to drive commercial real estate industry developments in 2024. We also touch on issues percolating in the market in our 411 segment, as guest John Ludwig-Eagan joins to discuss the latest updates on SEC Rule 192. And, we share our favorite (and festive!) holiday traditions.

Episode 8 – Commercial Real Estate in the UK, Plus the Corporate Transparency Act, Cayman Updates and Halloween Treats

November 7, 2023 – In this episode, co-hosts Jon Gaynor, Sam Gilbert and Ella Smith welcome global finance partner Aparna Sehgal of Dechert’s London office to compare and contrast the CRE market in the UK with that of the U.S. The group also gives updates on the Corporate Transparency Act and the grey list status of the Cayman Islands, and shares their Halloween costumes from this year’s festivities.

Episode 7 – CREFC Capital Markets Conference, Warehouse Facilities and Autumn Favorites

October 10, 2023 – Jon Gaynor, Matt Armstrong, Stewart McQueen, Kate Mylod and Gennady Gorel discuss highlights from the Capital Markets Fall Conference in New York. Gennady also digs into the latest trends impacting warehouse financing, and the group shares their favorite fall fun-tivities, minus the pumpkin spice.

Episode 6 – CRE Litigation Trends, Lending Order Disruptions, Article 7 Reporting Updates and Nerdy Beach Reads

September 5, 2023 – Jon Gaynor, Sam Gilbert and Ella-Marie Smith welcome Mauricio España to discuss recent trends in CRE litigation, and how clients are more inclined than ever to work towards resolution. The group also chats about possible disruptions to the lending order as banks continue to pull back, including predictions as to who may step up, developments to Article 7 reporting affecting securitizations that may present liquidity opportunities for the market, and the non-business books they’re reading to close out the summer.

Financial Stock market chart with abstract background. Digital illustration

Episode 5 – Distressed Debt in CRE: Silver Linings, a War Story From the GFC and the Dog Days of Summer

August 4, 2023 – Jon Gaynor, Sam Gilbert and Ella-Marie Smith welcome Laura Ciabarra to discuss distressed debt in CRE, including market trends, some silver linings that may surprise you, and a war story from the GFC. The group also chats about developments in Boston related to office to resi conversion, a bankruptcy case that could impact the meaning of funding in a lender's sole discretion and their favorite activities during the dog days of summer.

Pink sunset on the beach beach with palm tree, sand and sunset.

Episode 4 - SEC’s Securitization Conflict of Interest Rule, Cayman Island Updates and Favorite Vacation Spots

July 6, 2023 – Jon Gaynor and Ella-Marie Smith welcome John Ludwig-Eagan to discuss the SEC’s new Conflict of Interest rule regarding securitizations. The group also debates whether the Cayman Islands will move off the FATF’s grey list, shares favorite vacation spots – complete with meal recommendations – and launches the “4-1-1” and “4 Real High Fives.”

Episode 3 - CREFC Roulette: Six Key Themes and Four Cocktails Inspired by the June Conference

June 22, 2023 – Matt Armstrong, Stewart McQueen and Kate Mylod take to the mics alongside Jon Gaynor to recap CREFC’s June Conference held in NYC from June 12-14. Topics include industry sentiment towards the Fed regarding interest rates, the encouraging buzz around CRE-CLOs, and the fate of office as an asset class, plus four CRE-inspired cocktail ideas to keep spirits high during down markets.

Eco-friendly building in the modern city. Sustainable glass office building with tree for reducing heat and carbon dioxide. Office building with green environment. Corporate building reduce CO2.

Episode 2 - It’s Easy Being Green: ESG and CPACE Loans, Plus Debt Ceiling Drama

June 7, 2023 – Jon Gaynor, Sam Gilbert and Ella-Marie Smith welcome fellow Global Finance colleague Jason Rozes to share the latest sustainability trends impacting commercial real estate, from a discussion on the evolution of key terminology to the potential impact of the (yet-to be published) SEC climate risk disclosure rules, and a definition of CPACE that only a mother could love. The group also discusses the short-term and long-term effects of dealing with U.S. debt ceiling clashes.

Episode 1 - Crisis Averted: Navigating Recent Bank Closures, Plus LIBOR’s Final Days

May 8, 2023 – Co-hosts Jon Gaynor, Sam Gilbert and Ella-Marie Smith and our first guest, Dechert New York partner Kathleen Mylod, share their thoughts on the recent bank closures, the related impact on cash management provisions in loans (today and on a go forward basis), and the world’s best/worst/only LIBOR joke.

About Dechert's Global Finance Practice

Dechert’s global finance practice provides a responsive, interdisciplinary, multi-jurisdictional team to address the complexities of modern finance transactions across categories and geographies. With more than 200 lawyers in the world’s major financial centers, our internationally recognized practice provides clients with innovative deal structuring, creative financing strategies and efficient execution. Our clients receive comprehensive solutions for all of their finance needs. By tapping into the breadth of Dechert’s expertise, we deliver advice on fund finance, real estate finance, structured finance, leveraged finance and securitization matters.

Learn More